[Krazzed]

TLDR Car cranks won't start after it got really really cold, bought new battery still doesn't start, it does however crank. Throwing codes P0456, P0480, P2017, P0113 and P2181 none of which should stop it from turning over. However I was told to use my booster cable to replace the negative cable and when I did so and grounded it to the car she turned over for like a second and then died but battery was spent from endless times trying to start it so waiting on a charger.

Was wondering if anyone could help me diagnose the ol' jalopy lol? It was running just fine until about a week ago, had an incredible cold snap; temps dropped to -45C hasn't started till then. I was thinking it needed a boost, tried that to no avail, purchased a new battery; still no dice. Then I thought I might have frozen fuel in my lines because I had just under half a tank & was getting fuel from a local grocery store, so I had fuel delivered and put a couple bottles of gas line antifreeze in, still nothing. pulled the fuel supply line to check for flow it spurts but I found that inconclusive and truth be told its just still too damn cold out. So what I know is: the fuel pump still primes when I turn it to ACC, it shouldn't be the starter relay because it cranks, I doubt it's the starter because its clearly cranking, battery terminal clamps could use cleaning but don't seem to be overly inhibiting function. Also weird buzzing sound under the hood after I try turning the engine over; not sure what that's all about or if you can hear it on the video. The block heater has been plugged in the entire season, did notice that the coolant reservoir was empty and the top of the rad didn't have any liquid in it; so I topped up booth It belonged to my dad previously who is very mechanically savvy, (but I don't wanna bug him, hell I already got a free car, least I can do is take care of it) said that it has done this in the past, which is refuse to start when its extremely cold and his remedy was just to wait until it warmed up and it turned right over, however there HAS to be a rational answer. I put my scanner on it the only codes I got were P0456, P0480, P2017, P0113 & P2181 none of which would prevent a start up I would think. When I cleared them P0113 was the only one to return without ignition. The last time it ran I got the lightning bolt indicative of the throttle body control problem and it was revving a little high but I attributed that to, cold start and maybe pressing my remote start too many times; either way I turned of the car and restarted and it went away. So I got nothing but if I had to guess I feel like the fuel pump isn't maintaining enough pressure to start but it lacks a Schrader valve and I don't feel like pulling up my rear seat in these temps. so hit me with what you got.

 

[Linda_thewannabeSRT]

Howdy Krazzer,

Sorry to hear about your Cali, from my limited understanding of gasoline motors and these cars, I would say that its probably your fuel system (most likely due to the cold). The freezing point of gasoline is -40°C so its very possible your fuel lines are frozen. It could also be your fuel pump is bad or on the very edge of being bad. During my time of owning my Linda I've had to replace 3 fuel pumps so that would be one of my guess depending on the cars mileage. The best I can say is that you might have to wait for warmer weather to test anything. As for the remaining code P0113, it means Intake Air Temperature Circuit High Input. My guess is it could be related to the cold but here are some possible causes outside of that:

P0113 Possible Causes:
The IAT (Intake Air Temperature) is corroded or defective
Backfiring has occurred in the intake manifold
The tip of the sensor has been contaminated by oil
A wiring connector has corroded or detached
The IAT circuit has been shorted
The PCM has failed

Lastly, I would make sure that the battery is good and fully charged before trying to start it up again. I would also clean the battery terminals and make sure the connections are fully tighten on battery. I hope this helps and I wish you the best of luck with your Cali

 

[MikkiZ]

Hi like you, I'm having the same problems with mine. I know my 02 sensors need replacing, and possibly have a clogged air filter. But, until it got really cold here (central Texas) I didn't have any running problems. Now, after running for about 10 minutes, parked or driving, that electronic throttle light comes on and she starts losing power, kind of like im out of gas. Once I turn it off, wait a few minutes, and start it up again, it's off. So im just cranking her up a couple times a day, and driving around the block a few times. Hopefully it's just the cold. Hope it's just that for you too

 

[672aq]

Could this be an Intake Air Temperature issue?

 

[Krazzed]

Hi like you, I'm having the same problems with mine. I know my 02 sensors need replacing, and possibly have a clogged air filter. But, until it got really cold here (central Texas) I didn't have any running problems. Now, after running for about 10 minutes, parked or driving, that electronic throttle light comes on and she starts losing power, kind of like im out of gas. Once I turn it off, wait a few minutes, and start it up again, it's off. So im just cranking her up a couple times a day, and driving around the block a few times. Hopefully it's just the cold. Hope it's just that for you too

Thank you, I totally hope my dad is right and that it's just a cold issue for the time being. It's been about -28 to -45 C here (-18 to -49F) for a week now.

 

[Krazzed]

Could this be an Intake Air Temperature issue?

That's the second of two competing theories I have going now, its either that as suggested by my P0113 code or I have frozen or restricted fuel lines and I'm not getting any or enough fuel going to the engine. There's also a looming feeling in the pit of my stomach that it might be the fuel pump also, because I've read enough accounts of people who are still hearing them prime up but ultimately having to replace them because they failed to produce enough fuel pressure. This is really making me yearn for spring where I'll just get to the junkyard and grab a few of those bits, like a couple of fuel pumps, relays, TIPM's, throttle body's, cam and crankshaft position sensor's you know all the difficult to find bits lol. I'll probably just pick up and entirely new car as well because why not? haha redundancy can be a good thing

 

[Krazzed]

I'm thinking I have that infamous relay rot situation boy, I'm just all over the place; it just sucks when you only have one car to rely on everything just seems so much more urgent. I'm not a happy camper I'll tell ya that.

 

[chrisf2012]

Let's put it this way...you live in the snow belt like I do so you live where salt is put on the roads. As such you will DEFINITELY have a corrosion issue with the one relay in the corner of the box behind the front left headlight. You might as well fix it and see what happens...won't hurt anything.

The replacement relay is a WVE/Wells 1R2426.

The rotted relay socket and relay won't be reusable and you can't replace the box without replacing the car's entire main wiring harness. When I replaced mine I ended up simply cutting the wires for that relay where they enter the box, adding some short extensions to the wire, and connecting the wires directly to the legs of the new relay (which was then wrapped in electrical tape and zip tied to the wiring harness). You can also buy sockets with attached wires that the relay plugs into...this would be a tidier, more "professional" solution but wasn't an option for me at the time.

Looking at back of relay with row of 3 pins at the top, wire color codes are: left thin pin 18ga red/blue (there are two of them that connect to pin), center pin N/C, right thin pin 18ga blue/green, large pin in middle of whole relay 12ga blue/gray, bottom large pin 12ga red/black(ish).

 

[Krazzed]

I have been watching YouTube videos like crazy detailing this exact thing. The relay that I removed was the radiator low/high which is the one in the corner that always corrodes away. The one I was more concerned about was the Main relay or the Auto Shut Down relay I think. I haven't pulled that one yet mainly because I haven't been able to access it, and its cold as all get out. Right now I'd be really interested in possibly learning how to just jumper it if its the problem so I can get it somewhere indoors and warm to comfortably work on it because I still don't know if its a corroded connection underneath the relay box or one within the harness nearby. But to be completely honest, I still don't know if the temperature is a major factor in the form of some kind of gas line freezing (which although highly unlikely isn't out of the question), for all I know there could be water in my fuel lines

 

[Krazzed]

Howdy Krazzer,

Sorry to hear about your Cali, from my limited understanding of gasoline motors and these cars, I would say that its probably your fuel system (most likely due to the cold). The freezing point of gasoline is -40°C so its very possible your fuel lines are frozen. It could also be your fuel pump is bad or on the very edge of being bad. During my time of owning my Linda I've had to replace 3 fuel pumps so that would be one of my guess depending on the cars mileage. The best I can say is that you might have to wait for warmer weather to test anything. As for the remaining code P0113, it means Intake Air Temperature Circuit High Input. My guess is it could be related to the cold but here are some possible causes outside of that:

P0113 Possible Causes:
The IAT (Intake Air Temperature) is corroded or defective
Backfiring has occurred in the intake manifold
The tip of the sensor has been contaminated by oil
A wiring connector has corroded or detached
The IAT circuit has been shorted
The PCM has failed

Lastly, I would make sure that the battery is good and fully charged before trying to start it up again. I would also clean the battery terminals and make sure the connections are fully tighten on battery. I hope this helps and I wish you the best of luck with your Cali

OMG thank you for the reply I really appreciate it and you seem to know your stuff, the extreme cold is scheduled to break as of tomorrow (thank god). Thanks for backing me on the fuel line potentially freezing everyone is making it sound super impossible I mean its highly unlikely but I mean its been pretty cold up here and I was using some less than reputable gas so I could just be paying the price for a less cheaping out and not getting proper "winter gas". I'm very much hoping its not a relay problem however, its not super easy to access and I've already pulled out the radiator hi/low relay on the very corner at its corroded not sure about my main relay though, since it cranks I'm praying its still good. Will instead check fuses 18, 23, 26,32 & 33 as they all have something to do with the relay and could potentially be the easier to solve problem.

 

[Krazzed]

Well the fuses are good lol, next steps, pop that front bumper off and get down to the relay box, that should be fun.

 

[chrisf2012]

Might be easier to get at the relay box if you take off the front driver's side wheel and wheel liner instead of the whole front clip.

 

[Krazzed]

@chrisf2012 Every video I've seen on YouTube suggests that the front clip removal is best. But ill consider that. I'm also don't think I have that ASD relay problem because the car cranks and its not throwing codes P0685 or P0688 which are usually associated with ASD

 

[Krazzed]

So surprisingly to no one but myself, the temperature warmed up a bit and the car still won't run. I've pulled some codes for anyone to take a gander at. Also I did notice that if and whenever I tried boosting my car the booster's green light to complete a circuit wouldn't stay on unless I had the negative terminal off the battery, this is still maddening as all hell, I don't think I'm having relay problems, can't definitively say its not frozen gas or even a gas problem at all. Kinda getting to my wits end as much I would hate having to take it to a shop it's starting to seem like this might be beyond me. I assume, that the intake runner code wouldn't prohibit me from starting though.

 

[Krazzed]

SOLVED
Ok, Just wanted to update everyone, the car runs again SHE RUNS. The temperature finally raised up to close to melting and she started. SHE RUNS, just posting this resolution for anyone in the future that might come across a similar situation. I guess it was just frozen fuel lines, lesson learned no more buying crappy gas!!

 

[Aleks]

solutions

gasoline freezing additive - Google Shopping

 

[Krazzed]

I actually did try that, used multiple bottles in the tank, then had premium fuel delivered to the car to bring the tank up from 1/4 to a full tank to no avail. I guess adding the antifreeze to a frozen situation after the fact isn’t as impactful according to this video

and my own experience. So at least for my car in the future I’ll not buy subpar fuel and maybe run the vehicle every few hours when the cold spells come to keep the fuel moving.

 

[Aleks]

Preventative rather than fixing. Fuel in the tank won't affect that in the pipes after the pump.

 

[Krazzed]

Preventative rather than fixing. Fuel in the tank won't affect that in the pipes after the pump.

Precisely, I just had to learn the hard way lol

 

[Linda_thewannabeSRT]

SOLVED
Ok, Just wanted to update everyone, the car runs again SHE RUNS. The temperature finally raised up to close to melting and she started. SHE RUNS, just posting this resolution for anyone in the future that might come across a similar situation. I guess it was just frozen fuel lines, lesson learned no more buying crappy gas!!

Glad to hear it worked out for you Krazzed