Dodge Caliber Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Newbie here with a medium mechanic level. I have a 2007 dodge caliber 100k+ miles 2.4 awd with a mil cel p0420 code showing up. I have replaced the o2 sensors reset codes and code reappears. Took to dealer to reflash computer, reset MIL, code p0420 still reappears. I am now currently removing the cat/maniverter to clean and inspect.

BUT... I have the manverter completely loose inside the engine compartment after pulling all the bolts, and have now realized after fighting it, that it doesn't want to come out the top. How is this cat supposed to come out of the engine compartment? If it comes out the bottom it looks like the steering rack, cross member and half shaft all have to be removed?

P.S. The exhaust manifold has 2 2" long cracks on the top that appear to leak a small amount of exhaust , anyone think this could cause the p0420
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,302 Posts
First welcome to the forum.

You can find a link to a service manual download at the top of this section to get details on maniverter removal.

Yes a cracked exhaust manifold will affect the exhaust gas composition and might cause the P0420 (cat efficiency) fault code to be set.
Usually, a cat lasts the life of a car, so the cat itself is likely not the problem, and obviously a cracked and possibly leaking exhaust manifold is very dangerous (CO and the like).
Also, if you check your warranty book, emission related issues are covered under a federally mandated special extended warranty in most cases.
 

·
The Organizer
Joined
·
15,004 Posts
I suggest if you're going to do your own work you download a free copy of the service manual in the "Manuals" section.

And yes, an exhaust leak of any kind will cause a P0420 code to be set.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks! Luckily I have a miller 110 on hand to weld the cracks in place, replace and reset, maybe I won't have to pull it completely out.

Has anyone here done an AWD maniverter cat removal?
 

·
The Organizer
Joined
·
15,004 Posts
Thanks! Luckily I have a miller 110 on hand to weld the cracks in place, replace and reset, maybe I won't have to pull it completely out.

Has anyone here done an AWD maniverter cat removal?
Section 9-1751 of the service manual has the removal instructions. The rear drive prop shaft must be removed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,302 Posts
Thanks! Luckily I have a miller 110 on hand to weld the cracks in place, replace and reset, maybe I won't have to pull it completely out.

Has anyone here done an AWD maniverter cat removal?
The exhaust manifold is cast iron - is it not?
Welding that might be a lot of fun!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Are there any service bulletins on cracked exhaust manifolds?

Interesting. I was told by the Dodge mechanics that my catalytic converter needed replaced ( 07 AWD R/T 2.4L 110,000 miles) based upon the diagnostic codes that are causing my engine light to come on. He also quoted me a cost of over $700. I went to an exhaust shop, they also ran the codes and agreed and replaced ( what I later found to be the "underfloor" catalytic converter) for less than 50% of the Dodge garage.
The engine light did not reset and the muffler shop said I need to do a 'reset cycle' ( drive 8-10 miles steady at 45-50 MPH). I did this several times and the light stayed on.
I went back to the Dodge garage for some other service and they said the Maniverter should have been replaced, not the under floor cat, as it is between the 02 sensors. I explained to them I replaced what their service advisor recommended (their work sheet said nothing about a 'maniverter' it said the catalytic converter should be replaced).
So I take it back to the Exhaust shop and ask them how come they replaced the wrong part? They agreed they should have checked the Maniverter as well and quoted that cost to me. They offered to replace the maniverter at no additional cost to me. I am amazed. I drop it for the day and when I go to pick it up they did not replace anything and instead show me 2 2" cracks in the exhaust manifold on either side of the upstream O2 sensor and suggest ( seemed logical to me) that is likley the source of the failure code and engine light.
I am heading back to the Dodge garage tomorrow to see why they did not do a visual inspection as part of their original troubleshooting instead of relying exclusively on the diagnostic codes. I am very curious if there is a history with this crack problem and if there are any TSB's out on it.
 

·
The Organizer
Joined
·
15,004 Posts
Interesting. I was told by the Dodge mechanics that my catalytic converter needed replaced ( 07 AWD R/T 2.4L 110,000 miles) based upon the diagnostic codes that are causing my engine light to come on. He also quoted me a cost of over $700. I went to an exhaust shop, they also ran the codes and agreed and replaced ( what I later found to be the "underfloor" catalytic converter) for less than 50% of the Dodge garage.
The engine light did not reset and the muffler shop said I need to do a 'reset cycle' ( drive 8-10 miles steady at 45-50 MPH). I did this several times and the light stayed on.
I went back to the Dodge garage for some other service and they said the Maniverter should have been replaced, not the under floor cat, as it is between the 02 sensors. I explained to them I replaced what their service advisor recommended (their work sheet said nothing about a 'maniverter' it said the catalytic converter should be replaced).
So I take it back to the Exhaust shop and ask them how come they replaced the wrong part? They agreed they should have checked the Maniverter as well and quoted that cost to me. They offered to replace the maniverter at no additional cost to me. I am amazed. I drop it for the day and when I go to pick it up they did not replace anything and instead show me 2 2" cracks in the exhaust manifold on either side of the upstream O2 sensor and suggest ( seemed logical to me) that is likley the source of the failure code and engine light.
I am heading back to the Dodge garage tomorrow to see why they did not do a visual inspection as part of their original troubleshooting instead of relying exclusively on the diagnostic codes. I am very curious if there is a history with this crack problem and if there are any TSB's out on it.
The service manual states that an exhaust leak is one of the causes for the code you appear to of had. Sounds like your dealer should be avoided and also the muffler shop. Any reputable place would have done the full inspection and followed the service manual troubleshooting instructions to narrow down the cause. This is not a common problem, but has been reported in a few cases.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Finished Project 2007 2.4 AWD Caliber Maniverter

Here is the update to my maniverter removal for an AWD 2007 RT 2.4 caliber. Following these instructions a medium level mechanic should have this project done in about 5 hours.

First off, I am going to correct information given in this thread.
1. DO NOT go by the world engine instructions in the manual, they are a joke. Even though there is almost zero clearance, the maniverter is removed out of the top of the engine compartment.

2. The maniverter is made out of stainless steel therefore cracks are easily welded.

Here is how an AWD maniverter / catalytic converter is removed.

1. Disconnect battery, Drain coolant
2. Remove decorative engine cover, and lifting hook
3. Remove plastic coolant distribution maniflold and 4 connected coolant hoses.
4. Remove 2 coolant hoses from firewall
5. Raise Vehicle remove exhaust bolts connecting maniverter to exhaust, mark exhaust gasket for replacement. pull off rubber hanger mid car and push exhaust out of the way. The exhaust and downstream 02 sensor do not need to be removed.
6. Remove the 2 maniverter bracket bolts 10mm located below the catalytic element in the maniverter from underneath the car. This may be done from the top side with the maniverter heat sheilds removed.
7. Lower vehicle, remove upstream o2 sensor located in the top of the maniverter, remove upper maniverter heat sheild, (lower of heat sheild is trapped in between engine and maniverter).
8. Remove firewall heat sheild located directly behind the maniverter
9. Remove maniverter manifold bolts 13mm and 14mm, I used an inspection mirror to locate bolts.
10. Remove maniverter from engine compartment, lift up and rotate toward drivers side in the area that the plastic coolant manifold was. Pushing the wires and small heat shield out of the way.
11. Inspect maniverter catalytic element with a light through ceramic element for clogging. Visually inspect for cracks, clean weld replace. (I welded the cracks and put it back in, because the maniverter alone sans labor is $700 with tax at the dealer)
12. Install new manifold gasket
13. Reassemble, Reset MIL, Test drive.
14. If the MIL stays off, and you welded it congratulate yourself on saving over $1000 dollars.

NOTE: The maniverter is poorly constructed out of thin stamped stainless sheet metal and mine had 10 cracks on the top and underneath side at the stamping stress points, causing significant exhaust leaks and a P0420 code. I would suspect that due to poor construction of this part that it is bad or is going bad on many calibers. Photos show how the maniverter comes out and a couple of the many cracks in the exhaust manifold.
 

·
The Organizer
Joined
·
15,004 Posts
Pretty expensive POS for that price. I wonder if this is a defective part or a poorly engineered one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,302 Posts
Pretty expensive POS for that price. I wonder if this is a defective part or a poorly engineered one.
Probably both.

Notice the rust on the manifold.
This is very low grade, high iron content, metal from China.
Cracks at stamping stress points - also indicate a very low grade of metal.

I've seen this before on food processing machinery.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Pretty expensive POS for that price. I wonder if this is a defective part or a poorly engineered one.
I would suspect that since awd calibers are fast approaching the 100k mark as mine has, this problem will become more apparent. Upon visiting my local dodge dealer I asked them if this was a common problem. The counter parts guy's reply was "the converter wasn't a known problem" and "we don't replace many".
So I asked how many they replaced last month (mind you this is a small town dealer) He looked at his computer and replied with "we ordered 15 last month".

15 in one month for a 4-5 year old car at a small dealership, doesn't represent a problem? That is B.S. plain and simple. Catalytic converters are supposed to be "ruggedly designed to last the life of the vehicle".

If you have a AWD dodge caliber with less than 80k miles, I highly reccomend that you remove top maniverter heat sheild and visually inspect the top for cracks because mine looks like it has had cracks for a long time.

If it has cracks and your car has less than 80k miles IT IS STILL UNDER WARRANTY. Get it replaced for free before the warranty expires, because after the warranty expires it is an $1100 dollar job.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
54 Posts
Size of Exhaust Doughnut

Does anyone happen to know the correct size of the doughnut between the manifold/cat and the resonator? Says there are two different sizes (guessing turbo/non turbo) but doesn't say which goes to which.it is 07 AWD R/T with 2.4l non turbo. the 2.975" or the 2.757"


old tread but the manifold/cat isnt the only cheap metal mix they used on this car.Seems like they should did better rust prevention on vehicle.5-6year old car shouldn't have any rust , this isnt 1970....
Thought we forced auto makers to do that along time ago.....
 

·
The Organizer
Joined
·
15,004 Posts
Does anyone happen to know the correct size of the doughnut between the manifold/cat and the resonator? Says there are two different sizes (guessing turbo/non turbo) but doesn't say which goes to which.it is 07 AWD R/T with 2.4l non turbo. the 2.975" or the 2.757"


old tread but the manifold/cat isnt the only cheap metal mix they used on this car.Seems like they should did better rust prevention on vehicle.5-6year old car shouldn't have any rust , this isnt 1970....
Thought we forced auto makers to do that along time ago.....
Can't tell you the size, but the Mopar part# is 05105615AB.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
I thought cats have a life expectancy of 250000 kms my friend is going through replacing his cat and his van has 250000 kms on it and every mechanic he was talking to, my dad as well all told him the same.
 

·
The Organizer
Joined
·
15,004 Posts
I thought cats have a life expectancy of 250000 kms my friend is going through replacing his cat and his van has 250000 kms on it and every mechanic he was talking to, my dad as well all told him the same.
This thread morphed into a Maniverter issue. I answered a separate question that wasn't necessarily a "cat replacement" question. Could be related to installing a performance exhaust upgrade. If tryduck ever comes back we can ask him why he needed the info.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top