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Why did FIAT decimate the DODGE brand ?

13K views 58 replies 8 participants last post by  Aleks 
#1 · (Edited)
My theory --> Chrylser made the announcement cutting RAM out of Dodge early on in the recovery process. Way before any product or design direction was thought out.
There was a consideration of the senior management team and balancing the brands as Dodge was 2/3 of the group total. Another widely suggested theory was returning to Big Rigs possibly with IVECO cabs. There has been some backtracking in the US so the weakening of the brands is recognised.

I believe the initial advisors were primarily legal. The survival strategy for FIAT-Chrysler was global growth. In the first bankruptcy Chrysler had sold Dodge Commercial in the international market to Peugeot. They later merged it with Renault who continued building Dodge vans into the 1990s.

For FIAT-Chrysler to invest in international sales of Dodge trucks they would have to use the RAM name.
There is a precedent - the Dodge Viper SRT-10 is not called a Viper in the UK due to another car using that name.
The appeal of US vehicles to the global market is the Americana marketing.
Harleys and Levis do not sell because they are the best product but rather that they are the same product as in the US. US PickUps were probably branded RAM as that was the brand under which they would be sold in the world market - not Dodge Truck/Commercial as Chrysler no longer owned those rights.

It is discussed in the second quarter hour below - and they have even less idea than my thought above.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCnwOQSLGSM&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

VIPER : Dodge's parent firm at the time DaimlerChrysler could not use the legendary name in Britain for its 500bhp monster. In 1992, when the company was just Chrysler, it lost a legal battle with Mr Cook about using the word Viper on a car here.

Speaking at the 2004 Detroit Motor Show, where Dodge's launch in Europe was announced, Chrysler UK boss Simon Elliott said: "We'll market the car as the Dodge SRT-10. Everyone knows it's a Viper and for the 30 LHD examples a year we'll sell, it's not worth spending the money to try to buy the name."

Bob Busbridge from Morden, Surrey builds an AC Cobra lookalike called the Cobretti Viper. He sold only 45 complete cars and 200 self-assembly kits in nearly 20 years of business but doesn't own the Viper name, either. He's been involved in a 12-year legal battle with another man - Kenneth Cook from Bournemouth, Dorset - about who registered it first with the UK Patent Office.

Kenneth Cook from Bournemouth, Dorset has a company, Brightwheel Replicas Ltd, that also sold a kit car called the Viper and he thinks the trademark is his.


Read more:

 
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#2 ·
Another Dodge takes a bite

The Conner Avenue Assembly Plant in Detroit, MI will in late 2012 build the 2013 SRT Viper.
SRT Brand & Motorsports President/CEO Ralph Gilles in a press release earlier today. "We're extremely excited that our ultimate American sports car will continue to live on and be produced exclusively here in the Motor City."

From now on, the Dodge brand will also no longer play host to the Viper. Instead the supercar will just be called the SRT Viper.

In the UK it was the Dodge SRT10, so no longer SRT10 and can't be Viper, just leaves the SRT.
 
#4 ·
Viper was a 'Halo' car that sexed up Dodge.

Maybe they want the same for SRT.

Also giving SRT an exclusive model makes SRT more valuable.

The 'ordinary' global Viper will now be a Halo product for Maserati.
 
#5 ·
So Dodge is going to die a slow death. And Dodge cars will be replaced by Alfa/Fiat cars in North America too?!
 
#7 ·
Chrysler wants out of the car business plain and simple.

They want Ram Trucks, Jeeps, and Minivans only.
This already seems to be a "done deal" in the US.
Chrysler hardly advertises cars any more.

Jeep (the new Chrysler "flagship" brand), Ram, and the Vans are getting all the advertising time.
Chrysler went out of the car business when they killed the Plymouth brand a few years back.
 
#6 ·
Dodge cars will continue with the Daimler LX for a while yet (Charger/Challenger/300/Thema).
In the US without the Caravan, RAM, & Viper it leaves a shadow of the former Dodge.
No Nitro replacement either as it's a duplication of the Jeep.
 
#8 ·
Having the Viper under the SRT brand (but still with a Dodge VIN) allows Ralph Gilles to have full control over it. This way, this Viper enthusiast/fan/racer/owner will be able to make Viper the best it can be without having to go through somebody elses P&L.

Its as simple as that.

Dodge is still alive and kicking, all the doom and gloom is annoying. Remember the Ram split, and everybody thought Dodge was done then? Remember the bankruptcy and everybody wrote off Chrysler all together? Dodge is still around, and will be for quite some time.

Dodge still has the Dart, Avenger replacement, Charger, Challenger, Journey, Grand Caravan, Durango and upcoming Dakota replacement (although this might be a Ram)

The spy photos of the Viper show it having the new Dodge crosshair grille. I'm not sure if that is what will be there when its produced, but thought it was interesting among all this Dodge doom and gloom.

Fiat and Alfa will take a long time to get any kind of market share in the US if the 500 is any indication of how future sales will go.
 
#9 ·
I hope so much you are right, John. Taking away the RAM, SRT and now the Viper itself looked to me like picking the cherries from the cake.
 
#10 ·
ABC October 11, 2011 (WLS) -- Chrysler is ending production of a once popular minivan.

The Dodge Grand Caravan name plate is going away.

Starting in 2013, Chrysler will produce only the premium Town and Country minivan.

The automaker hopes to end duplication in the showroom and give each of its brands a distinctive lineup.

Production of the Dodge Avenger compact is also ending.

Chrysler says it will replace the avenger and the Grand Caravan with a new 2013 crossover vehicle.
 
#28 ·
Model info update

ABC October 11, 2011 (WLS) -- Chrysler is ending production of a once popular minivan.

The Dodge Grand Caravan name plate is going away.
Starting in 2013, Chrysler will produce only the premium Town and Country minivan.
The automaker hopes to end duplication in the showroom and give each of its brands a distinctive lineup.
Production of the Dodge Avenger compact is also ending.
Chrysler says it will replace the avenger and the Grand Caravan with a new 2013 crossover vehicle.
This post is now off the mark!
The announcement made this month is that the Chrysler Town & Country will
be the minvan going bye-bye, as well as the Jeep Compass, aka Dodge Caliber
make-over, at a higher price.
Fiat just wants to push their UGLY 500 sedan --- but what are you gonna wear
on the other foot?
 
#11 ·
Alot of the reports have proven to be inaccurate, so I'm not getting excited.

Am I correct? Is Dodge going away? Who knows.

I suspect only people at Chrysler know.

I for one am hoping that it isn't. :)
 
#12 ·
You are in Canada right ? Dodge has a better rep there and is being protected.
The Town & Country will be sold as a Dodge.
Who knows what else Chrysler Canada will have so maybe the 200 will be a Canadian Dodge Avenger.
 
#14 ·
Yes I am.

Apparently Reid said that the Caravan will live in Canada.

But again, that is what a reporter said, so I'm taking it with a grain of salt.

We prefer the Caravan over the T&C.
 
#15 · (Edited)
thestar Fri Dec 02 2011

With the desire to not offer duplicate models in the Fiat-owned Chrysler Group's Dodge/Jeep/Chrysler/Fiat showrooms, in October this year, Fiat-Chrysler CEO Sergio Marchionne announced plans to kill the Dodge Grand Caravan and go only with its Chrysler Town & Country platform-mate.

"We cannot have the same type of vehicle in the showroom, because the consumer is not stupid," Marchionne told Automotive News at the time.

But now a report in the Detroit News says Chrysler's minivan plans have changed.

When the redesigned minivan arrives, it will be sold as the Chrysler Town & Country in the U.S. and as the Dodge Grand Caravan here in Canada.

"If we go to one minivan, it would certainly be the Dodge Grand Caravan in Canada, but the Town & Country resonates more strongly in the U.S., so that's going to be the van in the U.S.," said Chrysler Canada president and CEO, Ried Bigland, who recently took over as head of the Dodge brand.

In the U.S., the Chrysler van outsells the Dodge version 2 to 1, said Bigland.

But in Canada, it's the opposite. The Grand Caravan outsells the Town & Country by a 10 to 1 margin.

The loss of the Grand Caravan nameplate to Canadian dealers would have been a severe blow.
"There's just so much equity in the Caravan name in Canada," Reid Biglund added.

It's the third-highest-selling vehicle in the country, having recently lost second place to the Dodge Ram pickup.
 
#17 ·
i do not foresee the dodge brand going away anytime soon with the Charger Challenger and now Dart it does not make sense to me to put all the money and effort to redesigning and all out producing a new car not to mention that the Charger here is becoming extremely popular as a police vehicle especial now that the crown vic is gone but this is my two sense
 
#18 ·
No-one is suggesting it is going away, just pared down considerably from the majority brand in the group with a double digit share all on it's own offering a vehicle for everyone in the family.
Without RAM trucks, or minivans, or a halo sports car, or the SRT performance models.
 
#19 ·
Reuters 'Chrysler' may drop Avenger, focus on 200 sedan
DETROIT Mon Jan 9, 2012

"Chrysler Group will likely consolidate around one midsize car in the future," Reid Bigland, head of the Dodge brand, told Reuters in a Monday interview at the Detroit auto show.

By focusing on a single model, Chrysler can lower marketing and development costs. The move also removes the risk that one model might steal sales from the other in the same showroom.

The Dodge Avenger and the Chrysler 200, formerly known as the Sebring, are built at the automaker's Sterling Heights, Michigan, plant and were overhauled in 2010.

"If we have two cars that are very similar, it does split dealer focus," Bigland said. "Consolidating around one very competitive entry certainly has its advantages."

Nitro > Liberty/Cherokee
Caliber > Patriot
Caravan > Town&Country
Avenger > 200
Viper > SRT
Dakota/Sprinter/Truck > RAM

If they are eliminating showroom overlap then waht is the justification for Durango / GC ?

New Dodge
Dart
Journey
Charger
('Challenger'/Baracuda)
 
#20 ·
NEXT

The Chrysler boss said the automaker will expand the Jeep product line to include a return of the Jeep Grand Wagoneer. The new large luxury SUV will be about the same size as the current Dodge Durango SUV and also built at Jefferson North.

The Jeep brand “also needs a Grand Wagoneer, which we will do. We like that size. We like that upper end. We need to go one level higher than the Grand Cherokee; as large as a Durango, but it needs to have all the refinement, even upscale from the Grand Cherokee,” Marchionne said.

Marchionne said the automaker is considering whether the Durango, as it’s currently configured, would continue to be built alongside the Grand Cherokee at the Detroit plant, or moved elsewhere because of production constraints.

“If Durango stays at Jefferson, then a question of capacity becomes a big issue. But if I have to trade Durango for Grand Wagoneer, I’ll do it,” Marchionne said.

Read more: http://www.autonews.com/article/20120109/OEM02/120109808#ixzz1kittYWbd

Journey may become the SUPERBOWL product.
 
#21 ·
FIAT Durango ...

Chrysler-Fiat CEO Sergio Marchionne said that the Durango might be launched in South America as a Fiat.
 
#22 ·
WTF?
:doh: :smiledown:
***********************************************
 
#23 ·
REPRIEVE - pull back begins.
Someone finally connected that DODGE is a family across the spectrum.

Sergio himself claims that “the owner of the minivan is Dodge”, and that the new Grand Caravan will be a more exciting vehicle, despite retaining the classic minivan features.
The Town & Country will become a Mercedes R-Class type vehicle that will be more European luxury than updated Chrysler Pacifica.

Marchionne expressed little interest in investing resources into Lancia, the brands prospects are dim. So more Chrysler territories ?

Dodge will lose the Durango, Avenger and Caliber type as Marchionne seeks to trim the brand lineups to around 5 vehicles each.

July’s Automobile magazine
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...r-chrysler-fiat-dodge-and-alfa-lancia-is-sol/
 
#30 ·
The T&C only had US volume and not even the house leader there. Good name and opportunity for premium pricing but not at the expense of bread&butter Caravan volume.

This thread had that announcement on this page.


REPRIEVE - pull back begins.
Someone finally connected that DODGE is a family across the spectrum.

Sergio himself claims that “the owner of the minivan is Dodge”, and that the new Grand Caravan will be a more exciting vehicle, despite retaining the classic minivan features.
The Town & Country will become a Mercedes R-Class type vehicle that will be more European luxury than updated Chrysler Pacifica.


July’s Automobile magazine
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...r-chrysler-fiat-dodge-and-alfa-lancia-is-sol/
 
#25 · (Edited)
Isn't the 'cuda a straight replacement for the Challenger ?

Party of Five

Caravan, Journey, 'cuda, Charger, Dart

100,200,300 T&C

Patriot, Liberkee, Wrangler, GC, Wagoneer
 
#27 ·
Challenger may plod along in it's current form, but there is no space in a FIVE line up unless it's a Viper style SRT only model.

Jan 9th 2012

Motor Trend reports that Chrysler may forsake the Dodge Challenger for a resurrected Barracuda. The magazine cites two unnamed sources as saying the nameplate will surface in time to celebrate the vehicle's 50th anniversary in 2014. If true, the Barracuda will ride on a new smaller and lighter platform that's more fit to compete with the likes of the Ford Mustang and Chevrolet Camaro. The vehicle's bones will likely be shared with Alfa Romeo, which means a turbo four-cylinder may show up behind the Barracuda headlights as well as a fire-breathing V8. MT suggests the design may pull from the original fastback Barracuda, though a notch-back version would allow Chrysler to more effectively compete against the drop-top hardware from Ford and Chevrolet.


April, 2012 Motor Trend
Chrysler's need to find the appropriate replacement for the Dodge Challenger will spawn a family of rear-drive Alfa Romeos. The hottest rumor coming out of January's Detroit auto show is that Chrysler design chief Ralph Gilles is designing a new-age Barracuda to replace the Challenger.

Challenger's two key competitors, the Ford Mustang and Chevrolet Camaro, are both due for major updates in the 2015 model year. Mustang will continue on Ford's last remaining rear-drive car platform, and is widely expected to replace its current live rear axle with an independent rear suspension. Camaro's new Alpha platform is previewed in the Cadillac ATS on sale later this year, and on the Chevy Code 130R concept.

Using the Dodge Charger/Chrysler 300's last-generation platform, the Challenger is by far the largest car in this segment, at 197.7 inches long on a 116.0-inch wheelbase that is 4.2 inches shorter than the Charger's wheelbase. The Challenger is that long because it needed to mimic the 1970-'74 Dodge Challenger's proportions while using the Charger's tall front cowl.

A Barracuda replacement would be much more trim, though still on a RWD platform. Chrysler and Fiat are said to be jointly developing a new platform that's smaller than the current Charger/300's LY. Gilles' Barracuda will be a far less literal interpretation of its namesake, which featured three separate body style designs from 1964 to 1974. They potentially provide a lot of styling cues for the new car, which will avoid a retro look.

"Ralph's always wanted to do a new Barracuda," one well-placed source tells us.

As a Plymouth the SRT designation may be most acceptable in the house.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/future/fu...o_replace_the_dodge_challenger/#ixzz1vtpkeMXg
 
#31 ·
unless it's a Viper style SRT only model.

Jan 9th 2012 : Motor Trend cites two unnamed sources as saying the nameplate will surface in time to celebrate the vehicle's 50th anniversary in 2014.


April, 2012 Motor Trend
The hottest rumor coming out of January's Detroit auto show is that Chrysler design chief Ralph Gilles is designing a new-age Barracuda to replace the Challenger.

A Barracuda replacement would be much more trim, though still on a RWD platform. Chrysler and Fiat are said to be jointly developing a new platform that's smaller than the current Charger/300's LY. Gilles' Barracuda will be a far less literal interpretation of its namesake, which featured three separate body style designs from 1964 to 1974.

"Ralph's always wanted to do a new Barracuda," one well-placed source tells us.

As a Plymouth the SRT designation may be most acceptable in the house.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/future/fu...o_replace_the_dodge_challenger/#ixzz1vtpkeMXg
June 2 2012 : rumor of a revived Barracuda under the SRT brand

The Challenger will carry on in 2014, still sharing a platform with the 300 and Charger, as does the current Challenger. This opens up the possibility of the Challenger and Barracuda being sold concurrently, giving Chrysler two muscle cars among its offerings, a larger coupe cruiser in the form of the Challenger, and a presumably smaller, more performance-focused Barracuda, which is rumored to carry a 6.2-liter supercharged Hemi V-8, among its engine offerings.

http://wot.motortrend.com/marchionn...ler-fiat-alfa-romeo-213357.html#ixzz1whGtzwJU
 
#32 ·
Year on Year even including DodgeyFiats

CHRYSLER GROUP PRODUCTION BY DIVISION: AUGUST 2012
Division Aug-12 Aug-11 Change CYTD 2012 CYTD 2011 Change

Dodge/Fiat Freemont 73,653 59,606 23.6% 477,843 453,851 5.3%
Jeep 53,368 44,243 20.6% 515,596 386,874 33.3%

Ram 46,387 30,348 52.9% 289,604 235,273 23.1%
Fiat 7,674 5,697 34.7% 56,672 35,997 57.4%
Chrysler/Lancia 39,019 31,107 25.4% 251,327 192,800 30.4%
 
#35 ·
Year on Year even including DodgeyFiats

CHRYSLER GROUP PRODUCTION BY DIVISION: AUGUST 2012
Division A CYTD Change

Dodge/Fiat Freemont 5.3%
Jeep 33.3%
FIAT heve no real interest in selling Dodge / Chrysler/ Jeep to the rest of the worl
The whole goal was to sell Jeep globally, look at the transformation - and that is build capacity constrained.

RHD vehicles are specials,

HOW SO? O/S USA (& NOW CHINA) RHD AND LHD ARE ABOUT EQUAL.

hence more costly to produce, hence lower profits.

UK BRAND PRODUCTION WAS DATED AND INEFFICIENT. UK NOW PRODUCES MORE VEHICLES THAN IN 'GOLDEN ERA' - PROFITS ARE GOOD.

NO COST DIFFERENCE FOR LHD/RHD.

Other brands - they are kind of "exotic" - a small market will always exist.
The Maserati will develop into more of a kuxury Lexus rather than an Exotic.
The Exotic brand will remain Ferrari.
Abarth/SRT/Mopar will be deliberatley 'limited' numbers.

Alfa is a question - needs massive investment. A swap of Alfa for SEAT still makes some sense.

The dual branding of Chrysler/Lancia and Dodge/Fiat must have a limited long term future, and so does RAM so far.
 
#33 ·
FIAT heve no real interest in selling Dodge / Chrysler/ Jeep to the rest of the world ( hence Dodge deletion , & poor sales of Jeep / Chrysler in UK ) . However they are very interested in selling FIAT/ Alfa / Lancia based cars to the vast /lucrative car market that is America . There is a heck of a lot more Italian input in the DART than American , meaning lots of American $$$$$$ ending up in the Italian economy . In years to come MOPAR will be diluted down as , just an assembly facility for European cars !!
 
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