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The CVT (discussion on it's operation)

77K views 193 replies 56 participants last post by  Aleks 
#1 · (Edited)
So here is a picture of it from the JATCO site:



And here is what they say:

Belt CVT for medium vehicles JF011E * Light and compact design
* Wider gear ratio range for both acceleration performance and fuel consumption * High efficiency and fuel economy at the top of its class * Applicable up to 2.5-liter class * Main vehicles equipped with this CVT:
NISSAN LAFESTA, SERENA,
BLUEBIRD SYLPHY
MITSUBISHI OUTLANDER, DELICA D:5
SUZUKI LANDY
DAIMLERCHRYSLER DODGE CALIBER,
JEEP COMPASS, JEEP PATRIOT

According to what I've read, from a few sources, the CVT's computer communicates with the engine's computer. So what do they talk about? It seems that if the CVT doesn't like all the torque it's getting from the engine, it tells the engine to back off. Then the CVT goes to a lower ratio. All this to prevent the belt from slipping.

As you can see from above, this CVT is good for up to a 2.5 liter engine. I suspect most 2.5 liter engines have a certain maximum horsepower and torque. This leads me to believe that to much hp is going to be counter productive.
 
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#42 ·
I checked the owners manual again on servicing the CVT and schedule A, I did not see anything but under schedule B its needs to be serviced at 60,000 miles. My dealer told it will cost between 250 to 300 dollars and it includes a full fluid change and new filter. I am sure it will also include some type of adjustments but he did not mention that. The only thing that irks me is I am going to have pay this since I have never changed the fluid and filter on a CVT and do not want to learn on mine. I have pasted what conditions meet schedule B requirements below.

Schedule “B”​
Follow schedule “B” if you usually operate your vehicle
under one or more of the following conditions.​
•​
Day or night temperatures are below 32 °F (0 °C).

•​
Stop and go driving.

•​
Extensive engine idling.

•​
Driving in dusty conditions.

•​
Short trips of less than 10 miles (16 km).

•​
More than 50% of your driving is at sustained high
speeds during hot weather, above 90 °F (32 °C).

•​
Trailer towing.

•​
Taxi, police, or delivery service (commercial service).

•​
Off-road or desert operation.

•​
Heavy Loading

NOTE:​
If ANY of these apply to you then change your
engine oil every 3,000 miles (5 000 km) or 3 months,
whichever comes first and follow schedule “B” of the

​
Maintenance Schedules section of this manual.

NOTE:​
If ANY of these apply to you then change your
coolant every 102,000 miles (170 000 km) or 60 months,
whichever comes first and follow schedule “B” of the

Maintenance Schedules section of this manual.

To me it seems like everybody would fall into schedule B if they drive their Caliber 12 months a year.
 
#44 · (Edited)
gmcgown....Don't have too many tips other than easy on the pedal to keep CVT hydraulic pressures way down. I have said in the past that keeping up with everybody else is a waste. But that doesn't mean to sit at the stoplight after it goes green for 2 or 3 seconds...that is a real gas waster(of your gas & everybody's gas behind you). It also reduces that number of people that can pass under a green traffic light in its time sequence(that's tragic). It really helps traffic flow if you get a good jump on the traffic light(but not hard accelerating). But if you feather foot v. carefully off the line(anticipating the lite), you'll get a real good look at the cross traffic to see if anyone blows thru a redlight & have room to emergency stop. You see, feather footing isn't just la dee da, being asleep at the wheel & let's see how slow we can go & get everybody mad at you. Responsible feather footing is using a near minimal amount of limited & polluting resource(gasoline) to do what you need to do WITHOUT causing gridlock & making everybody else use MORE resource & time to do what they need to do. If feather footing made other drivers waste gas, I would hate feather footing.

Turn off the a/c as you accelerate. Turn a/c back on once you reach cruise speed. Some a/c's turn off upon accelerating, but mine doesn't.

Starting on a hill is tough. Most certainly get the a/c off. If you cause the engine to first, accelerate, second, to go up a hill, & third run the a/c, all at the same time, the engine is very stressed, & using gas at a most prodigous rate! If you can save 3 or 4 a/c horsepower for an engine that is near max., your engine will thank you with better MPG. If you cross a flatter street before you ascend the hill, accelerate harder than "feather foot" normal as you cross that street, so you don't need to make all your velocity gain ON THAT HILL. If you reasonably can, try NOT to reach the full speedlimit on the hill but after you reach the hilltop. Again, if you reasonably can, don't accelerate to the full speed limit till you really are on the hilltop FLAT.

Got to go now. Oh, yeah. I'm driving to eastern Washington over those 4000 foot mountain passes again, hopefully at 32+MPG, maybe even 33MPG.

P.S...Prop1 said that the Caliber a/c does turn off upon hard accelerating or climbing steep slopes.
 
#47 ·
Back from the trip to E.Washington, Ellensburg, Yakima. Air clarity was mediocre, so I didn't take many pix. Filling up in Ellensburg, with several work day commutes on the tank, I got 32.7MPG. So I was hoping for big MPG in E.WA. But the best laid plans of mice & men...... Ellensburg, known for its winds, lived up to its rep with strong 25 to 30MPH winds with higher gusts thru some of the canyon cuts throughout the region. The gas gauge didn't budge much at all for many score miles of downwind driving. Normally, my gas gauge begins falling from full indication after 30 to 35 miles. With the wind pushing me, the gauge didn't drop off the full mark till 60 or 65 miles. But when I turned around to return home & into the wind, the gas gauge dropped steadily. I swear, I could almost see the gauge drop at times. As it was, I still got 32MPG. But another day for higher MPG. It was a great demonstration of the effect of wind tho. I suspect if Caliber had to buck headwinds for an entire tank, 25MPG might be tough to get. & if someone wanted to maintain 70+MPH, much less would be anticipated.

The Caliber handled the wind well. Even the gusts didn't blow the Caliber around. But I never saw anyone on the freeway that had to fight the winds. Even the motorcyclists were doing alright. I think the wind steadiness helped on that account. My old Suzuki 450 motorcycle would lean heavily into a steady cross wind like a drunk leaning on a pole to stay upright(but I loved its 75 MPG).
 
#48 ·
Great thread folks.......I pretty much just drive the crap out of my 2.0 SE with cvt trans. I go 56 miles one way to work at pretty much 75-80 mph. A four day work week puts me at 450-500 miles a week or so. I do my milage all the time and I get 25-26 mpg consistently. This is probably 90% highway and 10% around town, stop and go on my weekends. I have gotten 30-34 mpg when I drive the speed limit. I change engine oil every 4000 miles.... I am going to go synthetic oil as soon as I can find a full synthetic 5-20W and then I plan to go 6000 to 7500 miles between oil changes. 25 mpg is not bad in my opinion for a 3000 lb car driven at a pretty good rate of speed. Regards, Chris
 
#49 ·
I really like my CVT transmission and want to thank the forum writers for giving me accurate observations before my decision and purchase with one in my Cal.

I let it do it's job and not too concerned with the perception that's it's not shifting normal...it's more "intuitive" than I give it credit for.

I am really impressed with it's performance in heavy rain at highway speeds.

I know I have AWD and traction control stuff, but it seems that all of it ties together in a great package that I would recommend to anyone I come in contact with.

:b1:
 
#50 ·
I know I have AWD and traction control stuff, but it seems that all of it ties together in a great package that I would recommend to anyone I come in contact with.
:b1:
You also got the color right. :wavey:
 
#54 ·
Hello, i have a caliber 2l cvt , i discover today that when i 'm drive manuel the gears a going automatic when i drive in step one, full trottle and by 6000 r/m its go in step 2
do you now this?
Greetings Jos
Netherlands
you mean when you autoshift, if you dont shift it yourself it will automatically go into the next higher gear at a certain RPM? If thats what you mean, then yes, most of us know about that. It is to protect the engine from being blown up.
 
#57 ·
Jatco CVT2

I've seen tons of speculation running wild on what the CVT2 can and can not handle, but has any one contacted or seen anything from Jatco stating just what the CVT's limit is? Besides 2.5ltr? a well tuned 2.5 NA can make over 200HP ? They do however claim "JATCO CVT can deliver more MPG, along with unmatched torque capacity, smooth performance, and reliability."
How much torque can it handle?
 
#59 ·
I haven't seen any published numbers. I do know from all I've read that the CVT has to be matched to the correct engine. In other words, you couldn't use the CVT that comes with the R/T's 2.4L on an larger engine like a 3.0L V6.

Anytime a transmission isn't properly matched to an engine's torque and horsepower, it's at risk of being torn up. Too many people mod their engines and forget everything that comes after that. Then they're wondering why the tranny is in pieces, as well as the rest of the drive components.
 
#60 ·
For education purposes, the Jatco CVT in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABaJidk9SJA

The once in the Caliber, patriot and Compass is the "JF011E" model for medium-sized applications.

The Mitsubishi Lancer uses a smaller model ("F1C1") wich is the reason why Lacers get creamed by my R/T Caliber.
 
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#68 ·
For education purposes, the Jatco CVT in action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABaJidk9SJA

The once in the Caliber, patriot and Compass is the "JF011E" model for medium-sized applications.

The Mitsubishi Lancer uses a smaller model ("F1C1") wich is the reason why Lacers get creamed by my R/T Caliber.
dont get me wrong its a cool video, but i think we all need a japanese translator to get the full effect.

as for the ratings... we probly need to contact jatco directly, or go through your local nissan dealer... they may know as jatco is a subsidiary of nissan, right?
 
#62 ·
Apparently that info isn't for public consumption. Keep in mind that the CSRT4 doesn't come with a CVT because of the torque and hp the engine produces. The other problem with the CVT is it's brains. If it gets more torque and hp than it thinks it should be getting, it will shut things down to prevent damage to itself.
 
#69 · (Edited)
Here's some stuff to ponder...
Now, I don't know what "version" CVT the Nissan Murano has, (How many versions CAN there be?:confused:) but none the less, it's a Jatco CVT of some kind.
The Murano weighs in at a tick under two tons, (3855 lbs.) just over two tons with two adult passengers.
It's V6 cranks out an advertised 265 horsepower with a whopping 248 pounds of torque.
Of course I can't read Japanese, but I can clearly make out the "3.5 L" at one point during the posted video.
I don't know for sure, but I do believe that this tranny can take a lot more than most are thinking it can.
It can clearly move a heavier, more powerful vehicle than ours.
I know they've said they won't make one, but just think about this again...
Putting a high powered engine RIGHT AT it's Peak power point and just keeping it there through a full quarter mile...:worshippy:
ZZZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM!!!
:cool:

Dare I say a Salt Flat Speed Week attempt?:jok:

Make an SRT/CVT, please.
 
#70 ·
Put your brain in gear.:D Do you actually think the CVT in the Caliber is the same size as the one in the Murano? Just like the tranny is bigger in a Ford F350 by comparison to the one in a Ford Focus. Trannys are mated to specific size engines. No rocket science here. No fiction here, just fact.
 
#71 ·
turk ive thought about this many many times- the murano CVT swap- a new higher output CVT. i saw that too the "3.5 L"

im thinking if a CVT can shift on the fly into "L" or shut itself down when theres too much pressure or friction.. then theres probly a larger limit than most would realize.

these are the #'s from a nissan altima with 2.5 L and xtronic CVT... i think thats a fairly good guideline..

175 HP at 5600 rpm
and
180 ft/lb at 3900 rpm
 
#72 · (Edited)
Here's a link to the Jatco site. As you can see from the CVT line up, the Caliber uses the JF011E model for medium vehicles (up to 2.5L), and the Murano and Maxima use the JF010E for large vehicles, and states"*High Torque Capacity". Different trannys for different size cars and engines. End of discussion.;)

http://www.jatco.co.jp/ENGLISH/PRODUCTS/cvt.html
 
#73 · (Edited)
Over?
OVER?
Nothing is over until WE say it is.
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

The Jatco website does indeed show them to be two completely different transmissions...
It's still a very odd way to rate a transmissions application.:confused:
Lets face it, if that was ALL that mattered, then the Turbo 2.4 should be just fine attached to a CVTII...:4-looney:
 
#78 ·
Since an engine is basically a large air pump- I'll prefer to increase it's ability to "Suck-Squeeze-Bang-Blow."

I'm sure a independent agent will develop a high performance CVT soon enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3UpBKXMRto

http://www.fallbrooktech.com/NuVinci.asp

Right now, I am pleased with the present performance of my Cal with the CVT/auto stick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwyQZoY0TLU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VYPsrOyIdw&feature=related

<snip>

In the case of the Caliber, there is a tangible detent at the bottom of the throttle's travel, past which the CVT will quickly select a ratio that brings the engine to redline (vehicle speed permitting), perhaps to give the driver the gratification of being able to use the whole rpms range or the illusion of greatest acceleration.
It's hard to see another purpose, since the Caliber's CVT appears to vary the ratio appropriately throughout the rest of the throttle's range anyway.<snip>

http://www.wheels.ca/article/32545

"Speed is a question of money- how fast do you want to go?"
Mad Max movie





:Racing:
 
#79 ·
<snip>
In the case of the Caliber, there is a tangible detent at the bottom of the throttle's travel, past which the CVT will quickly select a ratio that brings the engine to redline (vehicle speed permitting), perhaps to give the driver the gratification of being able to use the whole rpms range or the illusion of greatest acceleration.
It's hard to see another purpose, since the Caliber's CVT appears to vary the ratio appropriately throughout the rest of the throttle's range anyway.<snip>

http://www.wheels.ca/article/32545
That detent was removed in the Fall of 2006. Apparently too many thought there was something wrong with the accelerator. A TSB was put out for dealers to explain it, but in the end it must have been easier to just remove it.
 
#81 · (Edited)
Prop1...I have the detent. Seldom does my accelerator get near the detent or 'click' over it. But I wish they hadn't ever put the detent in. I see lots of other people must of complained enough, so Chrysler took it out.

Hi Pete...The dual clutch tranny by Borg Warner & used in the VW GTi is a strong competitor to the CVT. I think the DC tranny is somewhat more efficient than the CVT...at least in higher & highest performance modes. The dry clutch DC tranny avoids the high internal pressures of the CVT when in performance mode. The VW GTi w/DC tranny has a wonderfully effective 200 HP which provides its best torque over a v.v. large rpm range...even v. low rpms. The acceleration of the VW GTi is outrageously better than the Caliber with CVT...much more than the HP difference between the 2 cars & Caliber engine variants would suggest. The VW GTi has slightly higher EPA MPG ratings too. I test-drove the GTi w/DC & it really really is a sweet car. I think the repair statistics for the VW isn't near as good as for the SE & SXT Caliber.

Anyhow, the DC tranny seems so efficient, I think I would be happy with a space efficient DC tranny car smaller than the Caliber & powered by as little as 100HP. I could see me getting 40 to 45 MPG with a DC tranny car.

However, the $27,000 GTi w/DC is much more costly than my $14,000 Caliber. I hear Borg Warner wishes to introduce its DC tranny into less expensive cars. I think other DC tranny manufacturers will also provide their trannys for less expensive cars, maybe some Indian & Chinese vehicles.

I love my CVT Caliber...but my breath was taken away by the VW GTi.
 
#82 ·
It may all come down to manufacturing costs for these trannies.Car makers are allready slimming down their product ranges.They have a confusing amount of trim levels,engine /trans combos.& colours.In the end I think the average "Joe Public" will select his new car with his wallet.
 
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